I don't really have any advice, since I've never believed in the existence of such a thing as a boy *anything*. But I sympathize.

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All I can say is that my mother's resistance to letting me do "boy-ish" activities is something that I specifically remember and don't like about my childhood. I'd have played the drums instead of the clarinet, and I likely would still be playing drums. I haven't picked up a clarinet for 15 years. It didn't damage me or anything, but I do wonder what my life would have been like if I'd been supported in the things I really wanted to do.

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now see, this one I'll take credit for -- my evil subconscious has no problems with her playing the drums, or rolling around in the mud, or climbing and jumping, or anything like that. I just apparently have a problem with pushing her away from things that I feel are specifically targeted to boys.

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I also remember very vividly only things my mother didn't let me do that were "boy-ish" and they are specific enough to be the things I didn't like about my childhood. I've diverted it now as an adult and bought those things I wished for and put them in toys for tots boxes.. hoping that they go to a child who really wants them and not gender specific (particularly trucks.. OH I wanted trucks)

Just glad you are recognizing it now. My mother is still clueless as ever. She has 2 grandaughters and a grandson and she honestly doesn't know what to do with the grandson. She just was raised with too many women in the house I guess.

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well, recognition of the instinct is a very good start. It would be just as bad if you were one of those parents whose girls liked frilly things and you were constantly saying, 'But wouldn't you like a truck?', too. It can't be an easy path, either way. I think the big thing is to try and not impose *anything* on her, either way, but you can't always spend your time judging everything you do.

But you're recognizing it, to that's something, really.

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I'm really glad you're recognizing it.

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Yes, this. You're recognizing it, thinking about it, actively working to counter it. These things matter. Getting over our social programming takes effort, and you're putting in that effort.

Next time I have money and see something that says "Lillian" to me, I shall send it to you, no matter what gender if any it's marketed towards.

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The dominant cultural paradigm called. It said "Hello, Kathryn, how nice to see you."

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heehee! This made me chuckle.

But really... I'm not worried that you're doing a great job, and you'll soon look back on those impulses and laugh.

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Okay, yeah, that's an issue. It can be a shock to realize how deeply our own gender conditioning is embedded.

I think the fact that you've recognized it is going to jolt you onto the track you want to be on -- now that you're aware of your tendency to do this, you'll pause for reflection, and then let her go ahead with her own interests and be her own person. And if that person wears big stompy hiking boots, or frilly pink dresses, either way, you'll let her do it. Even if she wears both at once.

By the way, Bob the Builder is SO not just a Boy Show. Wendy, Bob's partner and office manager, is an awesome female character -- strong and smart and competent and still feminine. Just for pity's sake don't ever let her watch Max and Ruby -- now THAT has some offensive stereotyping.

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Or stompy boots WITH frilly dresses!

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Yer talkin' River from Firefly now. Yis! :-)

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Wendy, Bob's partner and office manager, is an awesome female character -- strong and smart and competent and still feminine.

You would not believe the arguments I've seen over this, and how Wendy is a subservient stereotypical woman in terms of gender construction. Seriously.

(For a good programme that is quite good in terms of gender equality, see if you can get your hands on Charlie and Lola. It's a British cartoon about a boy and his very clever little sister.)

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Charlie and Lola is great! And it's out on DVD, sez the Scarecrow girl. ;-)

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Heartily seconded on Bob the Builder. Unfortunately the voicing is too sweet for me, and I want to kick the scarecrow over the moon.

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Clearly you need to keep having babies until a boy pops out, so everyone will have access to boy AND girl shows, toys, and clothes (mine end up dressed in each other's clothes fairly often because Daddy doesn't get that lace around the collar == girl outfit if it's in any color other than pink... and there I go, don't I).

I don't know what's wrong with you, but I've got it too...

I was pissed as hell when my father wouldn't let me play Little League lo these many years ago, because Little League was for BOYS (in his defense, this was very shortly after girls were allowed to play at all, and the one girl down the street from me was the only one on any of the local teams). And yet, all I think about when I look at my little girl is princess dresses and ballet lessons.

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I cannot be helpful, as my dad taught me how to use a knife by the time I was 3. Not nice serrated ones, but the sharpest ones he could find. He did the same with all further offspring regardless of gender. I was using power tools by age 8. Mom waited on sewing til we were more coordinated, so maybe 7ish? Cooking started as soon as we could use knives.

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I'd sit down and talk with the part of your brain that seems to be doing this, and figure out what it wants and what it's afraid of, and address those needs and fears in a nurturing and positive manner.

Then, I'd buy her a pair of jungle camo pants and a book on trucks.

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Oh we bought her the truck book, believe you me. And she LOVES it.

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I regularly stole my brother's Hot Wheels.

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::grins:: me too - i can't count the number of times i got into trouble for sneaking into my brother's bedroom to play with his big-scale trucks and hot wheels. there was a little boy down the street that had a bunch of 'play in the dirt' type cars and trucks and sets, and i loved going over to his house to play - and i wanted to play in the dirt more than he did!

my mother still hasn't given up on trying to get me to dress pretty, though (and i'm far older than 21!). my compromise is to dress appropriately for the occasion, although my dresses, when i wear them, are sensible and plain, not frilly.

-bs

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Then there's the fact that my eight year old son has been picking out both Hello Kitty (girl section) underpants AND Darth Vader (boy section) underpants from the time he got out of pull-ups. I've had people tell me I'm "pushing him down the gay path" and I just tell them to STFU. He likes Bob the Builder, he likes Hello Kitty. He likes Darth Vader, he likes "soft, cuddly kittens and birdies". I swear, the comments I've gotten have made The Fist of Doom come out more often than not.

/snicker

edit for wrong use of verb form or something

Edited at 2008-04-29 11:05 pm (UTC)

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Bob the Builder is SO not a boy show!! They *talk* about everything, they plan what they do... *laughter*

Now that you know... let her watch it? *grin*

Jet watched all kinds of stuff as a kid, and I am mildly thankful that I never stopped him from watching anything kid level other than Barney and that wasn't because of gender things but because I would have smashed the TV into splinters if we were watching Barney... but he loved Dora and the Wonder Pets and Backyardigans and... now is really into the Pink Panther... Hm...

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Tara helps me working on the car. I appreciate it.

CZ

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Yeah, caught myself saying "but that's for girls" more than once. It sneaks up on you, and it's contrary even to my own upbringing to do it (I was the girl who lived in jeans, with a larger collection of toy cars than any boy in the neighbourhood), but it's easy to fall into the trap.

smallclanger has a toy kitchen and a doll (with pram) and all sorts, but he still gravitates to "things with wheels". I divert this into Lego, which is equal opportunity in intention, if not implementation.

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Me too. And I did it to myself as a child, reusing to read Treaure Island (to my mother's great confusion) because it was a BOY book.

I highly recommend shakydismount for this stuff.

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Wow, that is very odd and unexpected. I don't think it would ever occur to me to choose to avoid boyish things for my hypothetical daughter. At least you recognize it though. That's the first step, and you can from there work against the odd instinct and try not to gender-stereotype her.

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Well, if you recall, I was really vigilant about that type of thing. And I went out of my way to buy Violet trucks, and dress her neutrally. And she turned about 2.5 and said "PRETTY PRETTY PRINCESS NOW THANKS!!" Fortunately we're moving out the other end of htat.

Meanwhile, Milo, with his big curly pompadour of hair, and his dressing in Violet's flowered hand me downs? Weeks in-between exposure to the male of the species? His favorite game now is: womp. "Womp" is where you take something and punch something else with it - hard.

Violet always loved running, tumbling, climbing, mud, all this. But "womp"?? Um, no.

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